For those of you who saw the South Park episode All About Mormons, you know how interesting the Mormon church can be. I’ve also read Jon Krakauer’s non-fiction book about extreme Mormonism, Under the Banner of Heaven, and more recently, been watching the HBO series Big Love. That show is so great. It’s about a closet polygamist — he’s not a Mormon extremist, just a quote-unquote regular Mormon who happens to have three wives.

So naturally I’m more interested in Mormons, or in the case of Not My God, ex-Mormons, these days. In person, I’ve only met a small handful of Mormons in my life. I’ve corresponded with some before for this site. Richard Packham submitted his story to me some time back.

Richard studied Mormonism seriously and when disturbing questions came up, he put them aside. One dilemma especially troubled him: “Brigham Young had taught that Adam is God the Father. But the present church does not teach this. What is the truth?”

When he could no longer reconcile the differences, he concluded that the religion had to be man-made and, in a gush of relief, told his wife, who did not want to hear the news.

“I tried to continue my church responsibilities, primarily as ward organist. But I found it more and more difficult to sound sincere in public speaking, public prayer, or participation in class discussions. During the next summer my wife took the children back to Utah for a visit, and I felt it was silly for me to continue to wear the temple garments. And why shouldn’t I have a cup of coffee with the other students, or have a glass of wine at a party? I had never tasted coffee or alcohol in my life, but there was no reason now, I felt, to deprive myself of those pleasant things. The next year was an armed truce in my marriage.”

Richard, whose story had an ultimately happy ending, was not a Mormon extremist. I would love to hear from people who have successfully left Mormon extremism. Escaping from any cult, for that matter, must be very difficult and perhaps even dangerous. As to Mormonism specifically, I’d like to know the accuracy behind the Mormon compound on Big Love and in Under the Banner of Heaven.

Just one more thought: any group of people that eschews caffeine and alcohol (one or the other would be bad enough) isn’t fun.

Zachary Moore of Apologia posted the podcast on which I appeared at Apologia.

Thanks, Zachary. Let’s do it again sometime.

I’m following an Amazon discussion, “Non-believers– is optimism premature?”

One poster, David Miller, replies to another:

“Mariano,

I’m particularly intrigued by the free publicity you have given to those of us New Atheists who are passionate about the ‘Save the Children’ theme.

I had just posted on this forum a couple days ago on the same point.

So, I thought you might be interested in one of the songs we New Atheists teach our kids; my own kids liked it when they were young:

Jesus hates us
This we know
For the Bible tells us so
Little ones to Hell he sends
He hates us
And we hate him.

Yes, Jesus hates us!
Yes, Jesus hates us!
Yes, Jesus hates us!
The Bible tells me so.

I think you know the melody.

This sort of thing gives old fogey Old Atheists like Angel White [another poster] a lot of heartburn.

But I thought you would find it interesting.

I like to have my kids associate with Christian kids, so that they can pass on tidbits like this: you know how kids learn from their friends!

Dave”

It’s interesting to see how new atheist parents pass their values on to their kids. I think I would do the same if/when I have a child, and I love the song. How do the rest of you, especially those of you who have children, feel about this? I can well imagine that many people, atheists and theists alike, perceive this as another form of indoctrination that atheists hypocritically accuse religion of imposing on children.

One more thing: I have a background in psychology, but can anyone satisfactorly explain how some children are successfully indoctrinated and others are not? This goes for anything, not just religion.

Hi Diddly Ho Infidelerinos,

For those of you who haven’t heard the good news, I’m going to the Amazing Meeting with Andy, and I am performing stand-up at the talent show! However weirdly, I am performing in Las Vegas. When the TAM DVD is available, I’ll post the act. Poor Andy had to cancel our Penn and Teller tickets, as they conflicted with the talent show (d’oh!).

The article isn’t available online, but a shortened version of a chapter in Not My God, based on an interview with Sayid (not his real name) is in American Atheists magazine.

Although Not My God is about atheists in the U.S. since the religious atmosphere of my country persecutes atheists more so than most other developed nations, I always want to hear from people abroad– their personal stories, as well as their point of view about atheism and religion in the U.S. For example, In some ways, religion may present a greater challenge to many European nations than it does to us.

Sam White writes:

“I live in Northern Ireland and have been an atheist for a number of years now and proud of it. I’m also a life member of American Atheists. I read with interest every article published in the magazine, sent to me on a regular basis.

Andy my beau told me about when he was a kid taking his first communion and vomited the communion wafer. Eerily prophetic.

Perhaps we’ve all vomited a communion wafer in the figurative sense. To paraphrase Homer Simpson’s “crayon up the nose” speech, maybe it’s a wafer made from irrationality, or hatred, or cruelty, or abuse, or annoyance. I used the analogy that my mother force-fed me religion until I threw up.

Over and over, hearing people’s stories, I see this theme. This is particularly salient in recovering Catholics who have left their faith due to the trend of priests raping children and the Church protecting the rapists.

Even though Not My God is about the atheist experience in the U.S., I found this story from a Brit, Gary Roberts, on Coming Out Godless very stirring.

“I remember, one time, lying on the bed beside my mother as she rested during the day—and as Jesus, Mary and Joseph stared down at us from her bedroom wall. I was about 8 or 9 years old and we were talking about baptism, the bible and the Catholic faith. I asked her what would’ve happened to all those people born throughout history before the coming of Christ. I was surprised to hear her say that these people—which included innocent children and babies—could never attain salvation, simply because they hadn’t been baptised into the Christian faith. I’m not a hundred per cent sure if this was actually true according to the Church’s teachings or not, but I remember how horrified I felt for those unlucky, unbaptised masses. I tried putting forward naive arguments, such as its not being their fault they were born when they were, before the coming of Christ; or that they may have led good, honest lives.

But my pleas on their behalf just didn’t cut the mustard—these people were toast.

I believe that was a major moral crossroads in my life, one which led to scepticism regarding the tenets of not just Catholicism, but any religion.”

What made you vomit?

Everyone,

This is a post from a couple of weeks ago that I mistakingly put as a page, previously on the right by the About this Page stuff.

No results on the winner of the Christian Kitsch contest just yet…Corey of God is Pretend and I have so many great choices to contend with that our judgment day is very difficult!

This blog is about the personal stories of atheists, since there are many other blogs dealing (much better than I could) with political happenings, current events, evolution, skepticism, etc. When I started Not My God, I resolved to refer to such things tangentially lest I lose the mission of the project, but sometimes it’s hard to not mention those other subjects when they can weigh so heavily on my mind.

I think that along with global warming, militant Islam is the greatest challenge of our times and both scare me so much that I wish I had a prescription for Lisa Simpson’s Ignorital, but pay attention I must or else what else am I supposed to do?

The most recent book I read about the threat of Islam is Brigitte Gabriel’s

They Must Be Stopped: Why We Must Defeat Radical Islam and How We Can Do It

which not only scared the hell out of me, but provided ways we can fight back to preserve freedom and democracy. I was spellbound and horrified by what I read.

One of the obstacles of challenging Islam is political correctness/”cultural sensitivity” of the free developed world for the benefit of Islam. While I am in general skeptical of PC, well-intentioned though it may be, for reasons such as this example

Six Year-old Suspended for Sharing Lemon Drops

In the latest in a national trend, a six-year-old boy was suspended from school for half a day for giving a lemon drop candy to a classmate. Officials at Taylor Elementary School in Colorado Springs, CO summoned an ambulance and the fire department to respond when they found the boys in possession of the candies, which were bought by the student’s mother in a local health food store, and which school officials could not identify. The suspension came despite the mother’s assurances as to the identity of the candies, and despite those assurances, school officials urged the parents of both students to take the children to a local hospital for “tests.”

The school district’s policy treats any unfamiliar product as “drugs,” according to an administrator. The suspended student’s mother told the Denver Post that the school’s response was one of “complete hysteria” adding “I can’t believe these people are educating our kids.”

from THE WEEK ONLINE with DRCNet
ISSUE #20 - November 23, 1997
Drug Reform Coordination Network

I agree even more strongly about the danger of political correctness in abetting and emboldening our enemies.

While I do not think Gabriel herself is an atheist (she was raised, at least, as a Christian), I think that atheism, and the nation of Israel, will go a long way in our fight. While we’re on the subject of Israel, it fries me how the developed world chastises Israel for its attack (I would say counter-attack) of Muslims…all while saying, “Now get out there and save our asses from Muslim terrorism!”

The threat of Islam is relevant to me on a personal level– even if not exactly “the personal stories of atheists.” This could, in a very practical and horrible way, effect us all.

Please read Gabriel’s book, if for no other reason than for its practical advice about grassroots activism.

The answer is in your hands, as the story says. The free world defeated Naziism. We can defeat this, too.

My sister site, Coming Out Godless, had a personal story from a woman with a fundamentalist Christian upbringing:

“I must confess that a big part of the draw was to learn how to better convert Jews. Don’t listen to what other evangelicals may tell you, we totally get extra points for the chosen people.”

I’m always interested in how fundamentalist Xians think of Jews in such matters…

“Instead of finding a community of people lost and empty in their own self-deceit, everyone seemed totally normal. What’s more, a lot of them were atheists, and no one seemed to have a problem with that.

I had been brought up to believe that ‘humanists’ and ‘atheists’ were under literal demonic influence and part of a vast evil plot by Satan to destroy humanity. Imagine my surprise when the exorcisms failed.”

After “converting” to atheism, the author goes on:

“I was 27 when my mother found out. she cried, fumed, prayed, and kept my atheism as her shameful secret. I led a double life to save face for her.

It seems to me that there’s some unspoken rule I had agreed to. That because I don’t have a g-d or imaginary elf associated with my beliefs, they’re somehow less important. That’s simply not true.

I do not need a g-d to validate me. I do not need a hell to scare me into being a good person. I handle that all on my own. I’m out, and I’m proud.”

Very well put.

First off, I am trying to form a chapter of Act For America here in Boston, closer to where I live. There are a couple of chapters in the greater Boston area, but none convenient to me, so if you live closer to the city and want to fight Islamofascism and you know it, email me through this site. Wherever you live, please check out the site anyway– I believe it’s important and urgent. I do believe atheism is one of the best tools we have to counter Islamic influence, one of the greatest challenges of our times, and the growing number of atheists in the U.S. and everywhere else gives me great optimism.

Before I started Not My God, I saw that Carlos Mencia, my colleague, had a contest, “So You Think You Can Rant?” Regrettably, I found out after the contest had entered, since ranting is my specialty, but I did find an entry that I could especially relate to, this short rant about how every religious person is a lapsed atheist.

index.jhtml?videoId=87937&title=rant-lapsed-atheists

It brings up an interesting point, doesn’t it? Every child is born an atheist. If it weren’t taken for granted that most of us had the idea of god (or gods) drummed into us nearly from birth, how many of us would come to believe in these things? Wouldn’t you think it was some symptom of schizophrenia (God Delusion) if you came of age and heard about religion for the first time– someone frightened of an invisible man that watches over us every minute, that was, that is, that always will be?

Hi Diddly Ho Infidelerinos,

It was a tough choice, but the Christian Kitsch contest winner is A World Quite Mad, who submitted:

“I don’t have a picture so a description will have to do. I saw it at a funeral one time (hence why there’s no picture, there’s a time and place for everything and that was neither the time nor the place).

It was, you know how they have those flower arrangements beside the casket, usually on a tripod like thing, and there’s flowers usually in a circular pattern. Well, there was one of them, it was light blue, with blue flowers around it, and in the center was what looked like one of those Playskool rotary telephones, it was plastic, three dimensional, and the words written next to it were ‘Jesus Called’. I’m not even joking.”

A World Quite Mad, a Scarlet A t-shirt will be on your way! Congratulations.

Recently, I read Haven Kimmel’s A Girl Named Zippy, the memoirs of a girl from small-town Indiana. This wasn’t the first time this has happened, but I picked up the book having no idea that it would be rich in material about atheism, and there it was. It’s interesting to hear the author’s story of growing up in a fairly religious area, where atheism was unheard of, and where her mom imposed religion on her, but her dad was a closet atheist. OK, Mom was a Quaker and it’s a lot harder to argue with that since Quakerism is so, well, not forceful, but there were funny scenes in which the protagonist tries to weasel out of going to services and Dad doesn’t want to get involved, but you can tell he’s secretly pleased that she doesn’t want to go. “I can’t go, Dad, I lost my bible.” “Why not let me keep your bible until the next time you have to go to Sunday school?” (My paraphrasing)

Zippy herself– so nicknamed for her energetic habits– doubts the existence of god. I suspect her experience was similar to mine in that she was just annoyed by having to go to services. At the same, time, though, she had a lack of skepticism about Santa Claus, visions of Jesus as a ghost and her mom’s claim that she bought her from gypsies.

If there’s one image that keeps coming up in my discussions with people, it’s the kid in the pews (or whatever rows of seating are called in non-church houses of worship), sitting with her family, looking out the window, bored, not believing, but in any case, not wanting to be there. I remember myself, wearing a dress and heels, yawning in synagogue, taking longer trips to the bathroom than I had to just to get away.

“Zippy” even had a little song about why one shouldn’t believe in evolution, ending with “It’ll make a monkey out of you!”

Don’t you love the many perspectives of American life?

Hi Diddly Ho Infidelerinos,

Thanks to all who participated in the Christian Kitsch Contest. It was so fun for me to take a break from the “gloom and doom” that makes up a lot of atheists’ personal stories (but you know I find them interesting!).

God Is Pretend and I will announce the winner next week. Remember– the winner gets  a Scarlet A t-shirt!

Obviously, I can’t enter my own contest, but I couldn’t resist looking for some kitsch on my own. Take a look and let me know if you, too, are wondering, “WTF were the designers thinking?!” and “People actually buy that stuff?”

First, an old Daily Show clip featuring a little kitsch Christian shopping.

Nothing says “sacred moment” like this light-up inflatable nativity scene for your lawn.

Can anyone explain to me why Christians would want to hit golf balls with pictures of their saints? Is that a subconscious form of aggression?

Rarely do I see a non-tacky nativity scene, but there’s something about this kids’ picnic basket… (there’s something about the Virgin Mary?) Cherubic images of Mary and Joseph as kids strike me as creepy. Do adults think that makes kids relate to the characters better? I doubt it does more than confuse them.

To me, glow-in-the-dark is a can’t-fail kitsch factor. Try sleeping on this! Here’s another glow-in-the-dark item, so that you won’t forget Jesus as you try to go to sleep at night. (See masturbation reference below.)

Uh…I don’t know how to respond to this one.

OK, I’ve seen people with these plastic fetuses at rallies, but now I know where they bought them! Surprisingly cheap, and available in bulk. This falls under less kitsch, more tasteless.

It’s nice to find a product that’s maddeningly sexist as well. Be sure to read the description on God’s Little Princess Scepter.

People have sent me a few action figure entries, but here’s the complete Risen Savior Set and the Jesus and the Tomb action figure set. Gotta catch ‘em all.

I suggested this to Andy, who enjoys a more mainstream version of Guitar Hero. Andy, play this game or you are a coward! Christian rock hard!

These t-shirts are another one of Christianity’s lame attempts at hipness to appeal to teens and pre-teens. Can I just say that I love nerds, so calling Satan nerdy is not a turn-off, and in any case, I’ve never heard a nerdy description of Satan? Here’s another one, which strikes me as pretty rude for a Christian (saying “duh” always strikes me as rude). I’m a little surprised that Christian parents would buy t-shirts for their kids that are this subversive!

I’ve seen some sexy versions of the Virgin Mary, but this is by far the hottest Virgin Mary I’ve ever seen. I’ve heard a conservative pundit (not Colbert) bemoan that artists were all liberals. Clearly, he hadn’t looked around.

Not exactly kitsch, but…

I couldn’t find any sample cards for this board game for teens, but I suspect a lot of it has to do with abstinence. Girls, don’t let him do anything that will make him disrespect you. And guys, masturbation makes Jesus cry. I’d actually like to play these games with my atheist pals, just out of curiosity, so if anyone is in on that, let’s pool our resources and buy one. It’s good for the economy, so don’t feel too guilty about supplying the demand.

This game isn’t a product…yet. Can anyone explain to me Grand Theft Auto without the auto theft?

I can’t find it, but I remember seeing a glow-in-the-dark tombstone with a cross. D’oh!

Just one more thing about the Christian product market. Apparantly, people are willing to pay good money for dirt from the Holy Land (that’s Israel to you) to be buried in, or water from the Holy Land just for, well, just for the sake of holiness. I’ve lived in Israel, walked on the dirt and drank the water. I’ve also gone skinny dipping in the Kineret (that’s the Sea of Galilee to Christians). I couldn’t make that stuff up. If only I had the savvy to get a piece of this business…Mom, if you’re reading this, bring back about 1,000 vials of Jordan River water. Yes, I know it’s a schlep.

Hi Diddly Ho Atheisterinos,

Don’t forget that this is the last week of our Christian Kitsch Contest. Please be sure to check out the entries at God is Pretend, particularly this beaut:

“I have one, but I don’t have a picture so a description will have to do. I saw it at a funeral one time (hence why there’s no picture, there’s a time and place for everything and that was neither the time nor the place).

It was, you know how they have those flower arrangements beside the casket, usually on a tripod like thing, and there’s flowers usually in a circular pattern. Well, there was one of them, it was light blue, with blue flowers around it, and in the center was what looked like one of those Playskool rotary telephones, it was plastic, three dimensional, and the words written next to it were ‘Jesus Called.’ I’m not even joking.”

I think I could write a bunch of long blogs just on all the sex-related products I am seeing in this contest, but then when would I get to talk about the personal aspects of atheism?

One more tangent, though: I had the good fortune of seeing Dr. Richard Milner perform his one-man show depicting Charles Darwin, among other greats in the history of evolution. Dr. Milner is such a talent– who else would rhyme “mandrill” with “spandrell”?

Since you all know what a Christian enthusiast Mike Seaver is, you may have seen his performance (which I hear was pro-bono– you get what you pay for) as the lead in the film Left Behind. Well, I tried to read the first book of this very popular apocalyptic series, though I admit I wasn’t all that interested and didn’t finish it. Similarly, once I tried to read Revelations to find all the references for this stuff that I heard of, and couldn’t get through that, either. I still had fun heckling the movie, since I love to heckle anyway, and it was a pretty good target.

In the spirit of good (heh heh) faith, Andy showed me the book of Revelations on his iPhone bible. I skimmed and skimmed, and maybe a close reading would have turned up more, but I couldn’t find any references to stuff I’d heard about from Left Behind or otherwise. Lots of references to fire and brimstone (is that lava?), Satan, scorpions, horsemen and fornication…but I didn’t see anything about people ascending and leaving behind a pile of clothing, about the nation of Israel as we know it, about a holy war in which the Jews would ultimately be destroyed, Jews embracing Jesus, lakes of fire, etc. In any case, if the rapture were to happen, what would be the point of those left behind to embrace Jesus? Wouldn’t it be too little, too late? Do their ascended loved ones miss them…or are they up in heaven full of schadenfreude? “I told you not to whistle on the Sabbath.”

It’s hard not to make jokes when you think of literate, educated 21st century people believing that plagues of fire and scorpions will happen if we don’t worship the right way. Many Christians believe that the apocalypse will occur within the next fifty years. I’m guessing it’s *always* been going to happen in the next fifty years.

Where does all this leave atheists? I’m with the sticker that says, “Come the rapture, I’ll be down here stealing your car.” Perhaps more relevantly, where does this leave Jews? A Christian “friend” of mine told me, mincing no words, that he would go to Israel when the time came to join the eternal army and kill my people. “Your people will die.”

Maybe the Christian army has to kill the atheists to get to the Jews, or vice versa?

When does the apocalypse/rapture get personal to atheists or Jews? For that matter, why does the Christian apocalpyse have to be so catastrophic and hate-filled, as opposed to the nice happy messianic coming of the Jewish “end of the world”? Learn to have fun, guys.